I've seen and heard quite a few opinions about the two being together, and I wonder what your thoughts are? Me personally, I now think they could be cute together, but their relationship felt very rushed to me in the DLC. I really didn't like it at first because compared to other companions, it seems like Aloy shared and opened up a lot quicker. Thinking about it, that might be because she's been learning to open up and connect with people, like with Beta? During the end quest, I chose the brain/middle option for Aloy so there could be room for something, but after hearing all the choices it sounds like she's giving Seyka a chance in all of them. I don't know if the devs made it a fan service thing so people would shut up about giving her a love interest, if they wanted to have Aloy not be straight cause Liz wasn't, or if they know the running thing of "wlw relationships go very fast" lol.
All posts by SobecksShaman
I've had my fingers crossed that they can somewhat use this idea for the multiplayer lol, that would be cool
So sorry this took me so long, I’ve been busy haha.
Glad you think the idea would be nice! I feel like they put in different tensions between each Tenakth clan, but the Tekotteh/Kotallo one didn’t seem very final compared to the Desert Clan with Drakka/Yara and the (I guess you could say Lowland Clan here) Hekarro/Regalla situation. SO the next game could finish that off, or at least have an ending where Tekotteh gets challenged and gets replaced, or he dies or something. (If you can’t tell, I really don’t like him lol.) Having NEM create replicas of Ancestors would be an incredible way to start tensions within the Quen! Using a clone of Aloy/Elisabet to create chaos would rustle up every clan in different ways, but the ultimate goal would be them not trusting her. It might even get more harsh, and create distance between Aloy and the companions, making them unsure about her and putting Aloy back into the isolated, loner state from the first game. Having Sekya as a mole would open up the possibility of Aloy spilling a secret or plan she has, giving NEM info any time “Seyka” asked. Although I’m wondering where they’ll place her, and when she’ll appear in Horizon 3, whether they meet up immediately or she travels with the Quen back to the Isle of Spires and they run into each other there.
Making displays of Liz and Rost on Aloy’s Focus would mess with her, and I could see NEM using their voices at random times, making Aloy question herself. Using Tilda against Beta would break my heart, but would be a great way in setting her back to the original state we met her in. NEM having Liz’s and Ted’s genetic material would be insane, but I could see Tilda taking some of Liz’s for herself. It could be a list of others who took Ted’s because of his clearance. This way, there’s the possibility Aloy and friends would have to put GAIA back into holding so NEM can’t take over or destroy GAIA.
There’s more of a probability that HEPH finds out about NEMESIS from the Tallneck's than anything else, I think. Maybe during the unsuccessful merge with GAIA, but I don’t think he’d willingly try to get close enough into her databases to find anything out. Yes, like I said in my last post, HEPH would most likely deem NEM the bigger threat. Aloy and HEPH could make a deal where he helps but doesn’t have to initially be linked to GAIA. But then sees how the group is willing to save Earth, and decides by the end to officially merge back into GAIA. I don’t really know if there’d be anything left of ZD sub-function’s codes, but maybe this will bring back our willingness to see the old maps, where Aloy takes Beta to GAIA Prime, ZD Project Facility, and ELEUTHIA-9. Beta might be able to find something Aloy missed, or make a discovery her sister couldn’t at the time.
There is the case of “is GAIA as powerful as NEMESIS?” and would bring up the same problem as before, with GAIA needing the rest of the sub-functions to absorb HEPH, but now it’s GAIA needing HEPH to help defeat NEM. If it’s the case of letting HEPH have full control of the network, I do hope it’d be enough to cut NEM out. HEPH would be able to pump out machines around the world and help defend it, even though yes, it would be quite slower. Aloy and friends were able to use the FZ Base Printing Matrix though, so maybe in preparation they’ll create more and override them as they’re released.
HEPH + Beta could totally find something in the FZ Base that would talk about their nanotech, which would help the cause immensely. Although if we’re officially saying that HEPH is going to (at some point) team up with Aloy, this means he’d be able to convert the machines back into their original docile state. Or if not, they could tell HEPH to start producing docile machines. Or ones that they can all control, at least. Aloy and company can make machines based on the HORUS’s printing of machines, or come up with an updated version if they get enough data on the process and production.
I think that in the case of the matrix printed machines having unique codes, it would make the process much more difficult, and be a big blockage that players would have a hard time dealing with. I myself don’t override machines and use them as an ally that much, but I do complete each Cauldron just in case I need one of the machines. If we’re allied with HEPH and he’s printing out machines to help us, why would we need to override them in the first place? Now if we’re saying HEPH is printing without our knowledge/assistance, then yeah we would probably need the override because he’s not being very cooperative. I think if they were printed, we wouldn’t be able to override them at all. It would give the player a bit of a hard time, yes, but it would make no sense to have a Cauldron core be the solution. There is a chance GAIA and company can use an empty Cauldron to make their own machines before a fight, but we’d just get a big cutscene like them going to GEMINI.
I don’t know about having the machine’s armor and chassis being upgraded too much, as the player would have a significant difference in the second and third game’s machine fights. That could be implemented during the middle or half end of the game though, as in, HEPH slowly ramping up the armor plates, then using the shield. I’m unsure if HEPH could create the shield though, even with the knowledge of how to. FZ has expanded on tech for hundreds of years, so it’s unclear if HEPH is capable of doing that.
First gen of humans is probably my first option for a storyline. I do think it’d be awesome to have an “already known” situation in one of the games. Using the knowledge and lore we already have to create a game from the past would be sweet, so we could have some detailed explanations for things, or just expansion in general. In terms of the multiplayer, I’d honestly like to see the setting/start be like a mix of Skyrim and Red Dead! Where you choose your character and tribe, are put into a cutscene, and given a certain task depending on what tribe you’re from. Then it becomes playable and then each option brings you to the same point as all players before becoming multiplayer; you wind up in a facility and find a Focus. Learning how it works, testing it out, using it, all like how Aloy did in the first bit of ZD, and the group at the Base in FW. There’d be no tribe specific quests after it switches to multi, making it less jumbled and/or too big to release. I don’t know about the time setting, as it would be a huge continuity error for the multiplayer after Horizon 3 comes out, unless it’d be a live service multiplayer and the devs would change scenery, dialogue, and environmental things. Depending on the timeline of releases, I could see Horizon 3 out, and THEN having the multiplayer, so there’s no issue and would technically leave room for a single player game much later in the future, without messing up the main game’s timelines or lore.
In response to the idea of seeing an Alpha or a FZ member, I’d probably go with Travis Tate or Stanley Chen. Both have been mentioned and talked about more than others, so it would be easier to introduce them as a main character. We could even have someone’s life before Thebes, then by the end it shows the downfall of the bunker. In that case, I’d totally go with Dr. Narong Somptow! Plenty of that storyline is great game material.
Tilda giving Aloy access to the Odyssey would make me laugh because it’s just what they would need to get into the ship. Unless the Zenith members left the keys in the car or didn’t lock the doors, I imagine it’d be hard to control or use in any capacity. I don’t think they would give Beta any access more than to her room, and wherever she studied.
NEM will most likely create updated machines. With or without HEPH’s help, it’d need an edge against Aloy and the others. Having her be in control seems like something interesting, but might be difficult to produce from the dev’s POV.
I think the Chariot line was going to have versatile machines, just later! But things happened and now we’re here haha. It would be way too weird to have war machines and not have anything in the air. Considering they’re legit called “swarms”, there’s no way Ted wasn’t going to release air based bots. As for water and space, I imagine the water ones would be submarine based, but instead of holding people it’d hold weapons, and another printer for a shore-based assault. Space machines would be mining and recon. The “next project” referred to might just have been ZD though. Ted did have to fund it, from what Liz said. I don’t think he’d try and make more machines considering all his staff either left FAS or hated him. There was only 15 months to do it, so I don’t think there was enough time anyways. But this could allude to some plan Ted had, whatever it may be, and if it ever got implemented.
Using Old World tech would be a peculiar thing to do, as NEM is highly advanced compared to the FAS robots, and any tech Earth currently has at all. Instead, Aloy and company could use the knowledge and tactics from the past, like Kotallo did in the Base. If it’s the case that Aloy does end up using it, they can create a machine’s form/chassis using HEPH through a Cauldron. GAIA/Beta/HEPH could create a different version of that machine’s code from the Chariot, and only keeping the parts useful to it moving and using its weapons. Then they’d write in changes around the replication, biomass fueling, slaving, and obviously finding and removing said glitch. I think it’d be a better case for them to find something in Walter’s suggestions, as it’d be weird for them to mention such a detailed datapoint, have Sylens bring it up, and then not use it or have it lead nowhere. This way, there wouldn’t (supposedly) be a worry about the glitch and/or the line going rogue.
Per your latest reply:
I really think that Ted failed in finding immortality physically or otherwise because it’s pointed out by Liz specifically that he doesn’t actually know how to make or create without other people doing it for him. Dr. Narong was in Thebes explicitly to perform this job, not Ted. Since everything happened in Thebes and by the end, Ted didn’t have anyone left. No one was able to help him finish the job/make the necessary changes and treatments so his body could fully stay optimal and truly human. By the time GAIA was almost completed and Thebes was being built, it has been mentioned he was very unstable and this eventually led him to non-stop annoying questions, and then killing the Alphas. I think you’re right that he talked with Londra, and that in turn means that Ted probably knows about Tshivhumbe’s mind uploading experiments. But I’m unsure about if he was told how it works and understands it. Also how close were they? I know Ted and Walter worked together during their contracts with Heaven¢, but it’s unclear to me if they were close enough friends that Walter would share such a secret. I could definitely be wrong though.
There is the case to bring up that after his mental breakdowns and time in Thebes with his spiritual advisor Grigori Fasbach, Ted eventually thought to himself he’d want to “make up” for his mistakes. Which led to him wanting to be around for the new generation released from ELEUTHIA and push them in the direction he wants, because APOLLO was gone at the time. From all this though, it’s hard for me to see that Ted would produce and build Thebes, select a distinct group of people for set reasons, and then have it be for nothing in a sense, cause he had another plan the whole time. If he had his body in Lightkeeper, GAIA wouldn’t really have a reason to let him out, since she let Aloy out. I have no idea how he could covertly create a similar version of ELEUTHIA either.
IF Ted actually was able to come back in any capacity, it would be immediately found out by Aloy and/or GAIA. Which means they wouldn’t let the man out of their sight.
But if Ted is brought back and found by Sylens, things could be different. Still don’t think it’d be world ending or completely dangerous, but there would be plenty of shenanigans and double-crossing. Although I’m really hoping GG continues with the “Sylens is slowly becoming a decent person because he’s realizing having help is better in the long run” thing. It’d bring a nice touch, as Aloy just recently got that enforced into her in the last game, so it should for Sylens too.
I don’t think Ted is smart or capable enough to create a version of NEM to be honest. Once again, he’s the supplier, not the brains. He could upload his mind maybe, but to make it sentient and conscious is a different story.
The chance that Ted would play both sides could happen, but if Aloy and Ted were to team up against NEM, he’d totally play her as much as he could, and work alongside everyone just fine. Only to betray her in the end, by killing her off and saying she sacrificed herself while he destroyed NEMESIS, so everyone would love him and worship him.
Or he could team up with NEMESIS, just to start ZD over again, still have the reign over everyone, delete APOLLO, and call it a day. But I have a feeling in this scenario that NEM and Ted would butt heads pretty hard!
I really think using the Lego game as a prologue for Horizon 3 is a great idea! It would help more/new players understand the games and help introduce the younger audience and their parents. It could help show the less obvious side of the lore, and speed up the learning process. It'd be fun to have Lego Aloy try to help real Aloy.
NEM creating and implanting 'sleeper agents' in each tribe is such a cool idea, and would be such a twist if it made fake versions of the companions. Being able to traverse and load into different minds, 'everywhere and nowhere', to keep track of Aloy would let NEM have control of where she goes and what she hears from other people. It could even cause a problem between Aloy and 'random character', leading to problems with Aloy and whatever tribe NEM wants. Including new people into the group has been a thing repeatedly, so I could see having one being introduced but it's NEM in reality, or someone it controls. The idea of NEM having devout followers who would do its bidding seems almost worse than the 'sleeper agent' idea, but both would be beneficial to NEM.
Also, instead of having Aloy vs NEM controlled NPC, it could be NEM controlled companion vs tribe. This definitely could be implemented with Kotallo, seeing how he plays such a big role in the Tenakth already. The Bulwark/Tekotteh has already had it out for him, so it could cause another inter clan war with the Sky Clan and the Tenakth under Hekarro's rule. (I'm serious GG please don't, Kotallo has gone through ENOUGH.) NEM could use and manipulate Alva to weaken the already fragile bond between Aloy and the Quen though. OR we could find Seyka again and have her be the 'mole' for NEM. Basically anything to get less people on Aloy's side so when the time comes, it'll be a no brainer fight.
OOOO I can totally see if NEM chooses a warped/holo human form it'd be a meld of the FZ minds! It glitching back and forth between each body and melding their voices one after another in a type of sequence. Or it could choose someone it prefers specifically, whether it was someone who treated it better, or someone with the most malicious intent towards Earth.
With NEM, being a controlling and manipulative AI, it would 100% try and use visual and audio hallucinations against Aloy. Whether they're flashbacks from her past that it's seen from her Focus, or using fake tactics like her friends or allies being hurt. By her or by NEM itself, making Aloy essentially 'bow out' and stop what she's doing in that moment. Using her Focus to give her a sense of either false security, or in turn making her feel vulnerable and threatened when there's nothing there. I do see these being implemented during encounters with each other, like when Aloy met Erik, Tilda, and Gerard in LATOPOLIS and like the fight in GEMINI.
Bringing Liz back in this context would be incredibly heartbreaking, and I agree that Aloy would know she wouldn't want to be brought back this way. In this situation, I don't know if using the version of Liz from Tilda would be a 'correct' version, and it would be very a skewed one at that. Both women did have a close relationship with each other, but it did seem like Tilda imagined Liz as something she wasn't, which is why they broke up. Elisabet was very hard working and compelled to finishing PZD at any cost, which is later proven by her sacrifice to seal GAIA Prime. If NEM did use a version of Liz from Tilda's mind, how accurate would it really be? Tilda did say, "An immense database of our memories, emotions, and prejudices, left to fester." A new version of Liz, no matter how realistic or not, would make Aloy feel like she'd need to try and save her, I agree. But having her actually be NEM would be a horrifying twist, WOW.
It is a question of why NEM was able to break apart the security measures, I've wondered if there isn't any way it was sold over to or stolen by FZ? We know Tilda convinced Liz to make a deal and give over the Alpha version of APOLLO, so maybe there's a chance one of the Alphas tried to sell it off. (The most first hand guess is Travis, since he was the head of cybersecurity already and he constructed HADES, but he also stopped Hank from selling over GAIA, so it's a big stretch.)
I'm glad you think the idea is good! I would really like Horizon 3 to have a lot of past information, and not just with text or audio datapoints. Obviously there's gonna be a lot (this is Horizon we're talking about) but it could shed some factual light on what NEM could have been doing in the background to manipulate Aloy this whole time, if that's the case. Showing any sense of 'Aloy's hoping after all of this she doesn't let Liz down' is a great way to showcase Aloy is still willing to do anything necessary to complete her dream.
I hope that if NEM tried to destroy the Biosphere, it won't be too repetitive of FW. But it would make things a lot worse compared to just the AI being scattered. This would give Aloy, Beta, and GAIA a chance to use the sub functions such as POSEIDON, AETHER, and DEMETER to terraform and protect the people. I imagine this would be the mid section of the game, and would give the gang a sense of accomplishment, before the 'oh no something happens that's not as bad as the ending' thing. Which would be the introduction of GAIA/ZD to the tribespeople. Most would either freak out and claim it's their God/Gods doing and it's the end, or would straight up think they're lying. But the proof would come in time, when the machines are somewhat fixing it. There is the big problem that NEM could work faster than the machines can handle, leaving the degradation to continue, and the world would be more frightened.
This brings HEPH into play. Where is it? Who would it side with? From what we know so far, it still doesn't like humans and doesn't want to be captured in any capacity, so it seems like HEPH would go to NEM. But, if Aloy and friends can convince and show it that NEM wants to destroy everything, including it and it's machines, I think HEPH could have a change of heart. Well, change of reasoning, but you get the picture. OOOOHHH I would love having CYAN return, I adored them!! Aloy could travel to The Cut and communicate with CYAN, and Beta could still be at the Base with GAIA, leaving the two of them to connect each AI so they could work together.
I think in the case I brought up about NEM being jealous, there's also the question whether it even knows Tilda, Erik, Gerard, and Walter are even dead? I don't remember if that was said, as I haven't played FW in almost a year now. If it doesn't, then that's the reason right there. If it does, which is less likely than not, then it could just want to annihilate Earth so anyone else can't have a place to come back to, and destroying it would be a last 'haha you loose' to FZ. From what we've seen of NEM's murderous intent and actions on Sirius, it's reasonable to believe it would have the same insane and malicious thoughts about this as well. NEM could want to go after Beta and Aloy specifically because of Tilda's thoughts about Liz, and other members of FZ could have been prejudiced against Liz for multiple reasons.
Oh gosh yeah I've heard about their planned projects, the one I'm most excited for is the multiplayer, but I don't know how that's going to turn out. I hope it does great and is fun! I'd be really into any games that involve tribe backstories, like the Red Raids, Quen expeditions, the Oseram homeland the Claim, etc. It'd be interesting to see the first released inhabitants of ELUTHIA cradles or Rost's life before Aloy and how he became an outcast! And oh yeah, if there's anything after Horizon 3, Aloy totally needs to have a cameo, big or small. Like Call of the Mountain!
I have heard of the idea that Tilda already started enhancing Aloy, and it did make me think. The whole scene of Aloy waking up at the mansion always creeped me out, and now knowing what Tilda wanted to do makes it more unnerving. There is a good chance Tilda already started the enhancements when Aloy was knocked out, considering she seemingly had the plan all along. This could come into play in the next game, depending on how much was done to her, or if it was enough to do anything at all. I do truly believe there's a chance Tilda let Beta to get taken along with GAIA so Aloy would have a reason to trust her, and work with her in general.
If Tilda HAD created an uploaded version of Aloy's mind, I wonder where it would be? I don't know about this being implemented, but it would be interesting if while looking through the FZ Base and Tilda's things, she finds a file or space designated for herself. whether that be her Focus holos or her mind and memories themselves. A twisted way to show off what Tilda was willing to do to get Aloy to come with her, either by force, killing her and making a new Aloy, or just having her continue in tech form. I don't know if the Zeniths had any more of Liz's genetic material though?
Having her realize her genetic enhancements while fighting NEM would be awesome, and give a more 'realistic' way to have her heal from some horrible wound. I could see that wound happening earlier than the end fight too, making Aloy and friends try and figure out how it worked.
I would like to point out a theory I've seen, and I don't know if it's true lore-wise, but some say the Specters seem like updated versions of the Corruptors. That FZ were able to update and build upon the basic version of the SCARAB design and use their advanced tech. Given that BS made us fight the biggest thing so far, I wonder if this is a little sneak peak that NEM will be able to create updated versions of all machines? It might be over-speculating, but I wonder if it could create updated versions of the KHOPESH and HORUS as well? I think that'd be too much combined with NEM already, so I'm hoping GG DOESN't do that haha.
To your most recent reply,
Oh wow, I though the same thing when I finished FW! It really was a missed opportunity, but GG might have left it out so the return in Horizon 3 would have a much more compelling impact. Bringing both sisters to the ranch before the worst could be a big motivator for them to finish the job, and finish Elisabet's hope for Earth. I don't know if they'd have the ranch be a place you could continuously return to on the map, but it might be a nice touch that after the game ends, you could visit whenever you wanted. It would be a nice bonding moment in the game in general, so it lets Beta remember they have the most obvious thing in common; not having Liz around to be their mother.
I think having Aloy teach Beta about fighting, weapons, and survival in general is a great way to have the "player tutorial" section in the beginning of the game! It would be a reasonable and lorewise great way to have that in place. Totally want the other companions to help Beta throughout the game too, by showing their own techniques. I don't know about giving Beta anything specific in the beginning besides a melee weapon and a bow though. Considering a lot of the weapons from ZD got removed in FW, that might be the case with the Specter Gauntlet. You are right in the sense they could use the excuse they gave it to Beta though!
I don't know about having a sequence of GAIA/Liz at the beginning of the game, but it would be exciting to have revealed later, like if Aloy finds another facility and more quest datapoints. I don't know if Liz would have a legit answer to solving the NEMESIS crisis, but it could be something that helps. Since we only know so much about her, it's somewhat difficult for me to imagine her thinking even farther ahead of PZD and restoring Earth.
It is very tragic about Lance, he seemed very dedicated and a nice guy. I hadn't heard about the recast! I was wondering if they were going to use AI recreation or find someone else. I do agree with your idea for Sylens' storyline, it totally seems like he would try and find out FZ secrets and use them to his advantage. It could be the case that he transforms himself into an interface like Londra did in BS? That would be a nice little hint at the next game, and what can be done with FZ tech. You make a good point about his words in BS too! There's a lot of exploring that can be done by Sylens and then he could contact Aloy, they meet up and go through the data type thing.
I think I get what you're referring to about the Lego game. Kind of like, NEM would run a simulated trial of what the fight could be like when it arrives to Earth? That would actually be fun to explore, and I agree that the multiple minds and deranged nature would make the sim/game run a bit wonky. That would be such a twist if Lego Liz was actually controlled by NEM, oh my gosh! I do agree that NEM would be "jealous" that Aloy and companions defeated FZ before it could. Having it on/around Earth before HADES was destroyed would be suuchhh a mind trip. I've always wondered what kind of physical body could even hold NEM?
EWWW having NEM make another clone of Liz scares me haha, that does not sound like a good time. I've had enough heartbreak with two of her clones. Yeah there is a chance Tilda's mind was merged, and there could be a possibility NEM makes another clone, but my only thing is if NEM finds out Beta switched sides, who's to say the new one wouldn't? You could be right that it raises the clone with affection, but I'm going to be honest, I don't see an unhinged, damaged, and rejected AI of people from FZ's minds having any sort of compassion or ability to love. I could be totally wrong though, this is all speculation!! I think if they have NEM use anything about Liz, it would be directly aimed at Aloy. We have no idea that power that thing has, but I would assume it could at least send things to her Focus. Maybe a memory from Tilda, or maybe a flashback of when it destroyed the colony, to show her how much damage it can do.
No matter what, I agree with a lot you've come up with!! I heard a thing a long time ago (could be completely wrong here) that the Horizon games are going to be "the Aloy trilogy", so they're probably going to wrap everything up by Horizon 3. I'm guessing that means someone will die, as another shock value and bittersweet ending. Truly don't see GG making Horizon end with shiny rainbows and glitter after everything we've gone through and seen lol. Although I would 100% love for everything to come to completion with Liz's dream of restoring Earth finally coming true, and having no other Old World threats now that everything related to FZ would be dealt with. :)
Oh my gosh, that would be cool! It would be interesting to be able to use the Odyssey, and have it as another base of operations. Definitely would make traveling easier, in the case of going from new map, FW's map, and ZD's map. I believe the retrieval of APOLLO should totally be in the hands of Aloy and Beta, and Sylens would love to help but I don't know if Aloy is ready to trust him in that department yet lol.
Also, being able to play/maneuver as Beta is something I've wondered about for Horizon 3, so I'm glad to know others think the same!
I'm really wondering about how much Sylens is going to be in the next game, considering Lance's passing. So I'm thinking you're right, and in the sense that Sylens would be off screen, maybe he's the one who would be mostly on the Odyssey, or in the FZ base. There could be a way to input GAIA into each of them, giving Sylens less access to do annoying things. I think I remember hearing something about Lance already having recorded a few lines for Horizon 3, but since it's so far away I don't know if that's true...
Oh! I just checked my old completed game save from 2021 and it says "Nine mercenaries ambushed her", and "six shot, three blasted". I'm doing another run of the game currently, so I can check if it's different when I get to Redmaw! Finn, you did say that yours says ten, so maybe it is true?
Really think it would be cool (although somewhat hard to plan/make) to have the global maps idea! NEMESIS is such a large and powerful being that I don't see it staying in one area. I think it'd be super cool to be able to travel back and forth between regions, like for Burning Shores!
I mostly do the same! I attack each launcher with sharpshot arrows, use fire arrows till the Corruptor overheats, then wait for the heat core to come out and sharpshot again. Or you can always use blast sling till the machine gets flung to its side and can't attack for a couple seconds, usually does a good amount of damage to it as well.
Yes!! I was playing yesterday and got one when I was heading to Maker's End lol and it was louuddd. I've finished the game a few times and they always happen randomly around the map for some reason? The Stormbird above Pitchcliff had a weird one for me, so it might have to do with a sound bug while near machines/quests? It always makes me laugh though.