All posts by JRY654 YD123

@Guy who types stuff 1.1

Regarding Aloy revealing truth about ZD and potentially by extension allowing mass use of Focuses and APOLLO, due to the fact that widespread knowledge of the truth would cause the various cultures to collapse if handled incorrectly, combined with the looming threat of NEMESIS, I can imagine Aloy while wanting the world to know the truth, would recognise that a sudden change would bring chaos and undermine her efforts to defeat NEMESIS

That she would initially in a potential meeting with the various leaders of the different tribes, reveal the truth in full detail, so as to give them full context about NEMESIS and it’s actions, and during the crisis be willing to share knowledge about ZD that would fit the cultural context of the different tribes and after the defeat of NEMESIS be willing to slowly introduce new technologies and truths about history to the wider world that would not immediately result in global chaos

I could also imagine that NEMESIS given its ability to assume any from biological or technological, would learn of Aloy’s efforts and potentially assume her form either via impersonating a hologram or creating a servitor vessel that was physically identical to her, and subsequently revealing the truth about ZD and potentially Enduring Victory and twisting history to paint Elisabet and by extension Aloy in a negative light to undermine her efforts and reputation among various tribes

What do you think?

In my mind regarding a new element that could be featured in Horizon 3, given that several aspects of Far Zenith’s technology is based around nanotechnology, and the high likelihood that NEMESIS would make use of similar if not even more advanced technology, that given Beta’s knowledge of science that she might as part of the preparations against NEMESIS give Aloy, potentially in the late game, similar to giving her a Sunwing override in HFW, various weapons that would feature a weaponised from of nanotechnology that would be especially effective against the nanotech heavy technology of Far Zenith

With the potential that nanotechnology based weapons and ammunition could contain a computer virus or series of directives that would cause the nanotechnology fired at to immediately disrupt its current form and fall onto the ground inactive, I could even imagine the possibility that if such weapons were late game that they could potentially connect with Aloy’s overriding abilities and enable her to override massive numbers of ZD machines to use against NEMESIS and control them individually

@Guy who types stuff 1.1

Regarding how Aloy and Co would manage to defeat NEMESIS, in addition to the idea of The Odyssey being crashed into NEMESIS’s physical form being part of its destruction, what other ways do you think could be used to either defeat, restrain or prevent NEMESIS’s attacks against the world;

In my mind regarding means to defend against NEMESIS given that Beta took the second Kernel from the Proving Lab and latter managed to take it with her after her escape from FZ, though after those events the second Kernel was not brought up again, with the Kernels being key to retrieving the other Subordinate Functions, with Aloy hypothetically being able to retrieve the remaining two functions at once or maybe even act as the additional space needed to hold Hepth without having to risk GIAI at GEMIN

Maybe in the third game given that NEMESIS had already been able to overcome the security defences of a fully functioning GIAI, maybe Beta would develop several different Kernels that would individually hold copies of the Subordinate Functions and GIAI and hide them in different ways as a further backup mechanism in the case where NEMESIS overwhelmed ZD again, allowing for the it’s system to endure another similar attack 

As for a similar idea given the Subordinate Functions though not intended to be a set of true AIs like GIAI, they could be turned into a greater AI to protect them, maybe as a sense of characterisation could have been given a digital human form that would have taken inspiration from their original Greek counterparts, it would have been interesting to see Apollo taking physical inspiration from Athens and Minerva from Sparta or maybe even DEMETER and ARTEMIS taking plant or animal forms, in addition to a greater capacity to communicate and articulate ideas, maybe manifesting themselves in the edge of GIAI’s dome in the base

Maybe in the next game in order to further empower GIAI to be able to take on NEMESIS maybe the Subordinate Functions would need to be further developed to in turn enable GIAI greater computing capabilities, potentially by deliberately using a modified version of NEMEIS’s signal to in a controlled way turn the Subordinate Functions into full AI’s that would work in tandem with GIAI, as several of them such as MINERVA, AETHER, POSEIDON, and DEMETER were able to be convinced or even welcomed to return to GIAI, granting them a human level of intelligence that would have originally appeared only in GIAI, particularly MINERVA given her cybersecurity expertise to digitally protect ZD

As for means to attack NEMESIS, potentially MINERVA’s a potential revered engineered version of the Extinction Signal could be created that similar to the original version that split GIAI and her subordinate functions could be sent to NEMESIS that would split the individual minds of FZ that makes up NEMEIS either weakening it by dividing and conquering the individual digital versions of FZ or allowing the digital version of FZ to given their normal personalities could weaken NEMESIS

Another possibility could be to using AETHER with its power over the sky and atmosphere could be to create large electromagnetic storms across the planet that would force NEMESIS, if it requires a physical presence on Earth, to land on predetermined areas in Earth without the presence of Tribes to be harmed and by making use of the other Subordinate Functions would turn the area into an inhospitable environment for NEMESIS, possibly having POSEIDON to create localised flooding conditions to physically drown NEMESIS or keep it in place by forcing it into a situation where it could not survive, with HEPHAESTUS either independently or working with GIAI would attack it

Another possibility could be that given that it was made up of failed copies of the minds of FZ, that Aloy and Co would be able to take advantage of the various mental characteristics and traits of FZ, such as their overwhelming overconfidence and egotistical image of themselves. As a do not think that any version of Tilda would be able to kill a “superior copy” of Elisabet, maybe leading to a situation where NEMESIS might manifest itself using holograms of the individuals used to create it, imagine several hundred versions of Tilda’s fragmented mind hosted on holographic servitors with fighting styles, (not at all a reference to The Matrix)

In the aftermath of NEMESIS given what is known in the current lore, what do you think might be the next big threat or storyline after the current trilogy is completed, given the report that GG has plans for at least 16 different Horizon Projects;

In my mind given that Far Zenith was originally revealed in the first game only in the form of various datapoints, albeit ones that were clearly in the line of where the player would easily find them, that given that before the Faro Plague there were a number of things that could have ended the world yet ultimately did not until the Faro Plague, such as potentially during an expedition into an Old World location an unwittingly unleashed the virus created by Naysay Doom

As for another idea, given the high probability that the true knowledge of the fall of the Old World and the history of ZD would in some fashion become commonplace during Aloy’s attempt to rally the world against NEMESIS, that in the event of Aloy’s death or otherwise incapacitation for a prolonged duration, that without her charismatic presence keeping everything together against a common enemy, that the various tribes would have their own interpretations of Aloy’s legacy,

@Guy who types stuff 1.1

In regards to Aloy returning to the Sacred Lands after defeating NEMESIS and living the rest of her life in her old home, I do see your point, though given Aloy’s history with the Nora and not seeing her old house as a home without Rost himself being alive I think that Aloy would not permanently live there, though I do see the possibility given the importance to both Aloy and Beta, and think that it’s lack of appearance during HFW given the geographic area was a missed opportunity, that in the aftermath of defeating NEMESIS both sisters would seek to rebuild Elisabet’s old childhood home, both with elements of the Old and New World, I could even imagine that Elisabet’s old home could be the staging area before the final battle against NEMESIS given its emotionally connection with both sisters 

Though I do believe that by the end of H3 that the machines created by ZD would in some fashion be peaceful towards humanity, I'm think there would be some sort of threat that would need to be would be in the future, if NEMESES was defeated without any consequences either in defeating it, there would be a lack of stakes, maybe given that the Specters lack an override, if NEMESES creates its own machines, maybe given the resemblance between the Specter and the Scarab, it in addition to other machines could create updated versions of the remaining machines of the Chariot Line, with some being left after NEMESIS was destroyed and inactive though could become a threat in the future

I can also see the possibility that if Aloy and Beta did create a global inter tribal organisation, that they would reveal the truth about the downfall of the Old World and the history of Zero Dawn, either in its entirety and unfiltered through the current tribes cultural landscape or at least during the crisis against NEMESIS be willing to somewhat accept painting the history of Zero Dawn in mythical forms until the crisis had passed, though possibly avoiding portraying themselves as a mythical chosen one, not wanting to add to the view of Aloy and perhaps Beta as another Anointed of the Nora or Ansestor Reborn by the Quen,

With the possibility that during the arrival of NEMESIS and the current biosphere degradation the world was currently experiencing, that Zero Dawn would suffer catastrophic damage from the defeat of NEMESIS and some aspects of the terraforming system would loss some of their effectiveness at least to the point where humanity would not survive fully, with Aloy bringing together the various tribes to have them help in maintaining the terraforming system, including aspects that were previously inaccessible due to the loss of APOLLO and being able to study from its vast database of human history and technology

@Aniu18

Though I do consider the idea that Aloy might be killed during the battle against NEMESIS, given that her character development during HFW was after trying to emulate Elisabet and nearly losing everything, only to understand that she was not a complete copy of Elisabet and be her own individual, that while Aloy would given her character be more than willing to sacrifice herself to protect the world, that sacrificing herself might be too similar to Elisabet’s ending given Aloy’s previous character development

If there was an event where Aloy not be the focus for the immediate future after H3, I could imagine an ending where she might be critically injured in the final battle where the scene would fade to black, though given that Cryogenic technology had been developed to Far Zenith, she could be placed in cryogenic sleep to allow her injuries to heal in a hidden New Game Plus Ultra mode secret ending, with her survival kept secret by her friends from the world to protect her from those who might either seek to worship or harm her until she was completely healed

With a potential reference could be in Brin referencing to Aloy that in his final vision of the future that she was “fallen, pale as snow-flash… eyes staring open”. I could take it to in a stretch be a foreshadow of Beta giving that she was rescued by Aloy in the Ninmah Lab giving that she cryogenically froze herself, with the possibility that given that cryogenic sleep would effectively freeze someone in time that it might an indication that Aloy at some point might be frozen in cryogenic sleep

Given that Aloy due to her upbringing feels little attachment towards the Nora and her newfound love for the world and determination to saving people, I could see the potential that she might attempt to create a fully functioning and public inter-tribal organisation, essentially growing from her current group of friends that include members from almost every currently known tribe, that together with Beta, and her greater knowledge of the Old World, would both seek to introduce and integrate knowledge of the past and help prevent future crises

With the possibility that given that she views herself as Aloy despite the Nora, and her own disinterest in being venerated as the Anointed by the rest of the Nora, that Aloy would in some capacity self identify with her newfound organisation, maybe named after Zero Dawn, and given that she has currently only fully known a about the various tribes of North America, and to help heal the world in the aftermath of whatever damage caused by NEMESIS, would set out on a global spanning mission to bring together the various tribes across the world

@MagzPandaHorizon

I like the idea of Aloy and potentially Beta travelling back in time to the early 2040’s to see a younger version of Elisabet and being tempted though ultimately choosing not to alter the timeline, let something even worse happen, though maybe to expand the idea further and introduce NEMESIS into the idea:

Potentially after returning to the present day and trying to capture HEPH, an equal amount of time that Aloy and Co have spent in the past has passed in real time and NEMESIS in some fashion has either independently or through interrogating HEPH, created a time machine that would itself either digitally or physically travel through time and in a refined fashion allowing itself to exist without endangering its own existence while simultaneously changing the course of history

With Aloy and Co coming back to an even worse future, though possibly GEIMI might exist in a temporal limbo outside of historical changes with GIAI in a mobile transport rig being active, and everyone needing to travel back to the past in order to ensure the safety of the future, maybe going back to multiple different dates in the Old World to ensure that history was preserved

With the possibility that NEMESIS might target Elisabet during the 2040’s and while remaining alive would be injured and potentially Beta given their similar intellectual capabilities and physical age would need to impersonate Elisabet to ensure history was “close enough”, and at an even greater scale need to convince Tec to create the Chariot Line after an agent of NEMESIS convinced him to go in a different direction that would ensure his dominance of the future and create The Glitch that would lead to the Plague in the first place.

I also have several different ideas about how time travel could be implemented into Horizon,

Scenario #1:

Starting several years after the events of Burning Shores, in an alternate timeline, and 1 year after the apparent destruction of NEMESIS, it would unleash its final contingency plan in the event of its demise and send a message to itself in the past, though it would unknowingly split the timeline apart and unwittingly bring various different versions of Aloy, Beta and others into the present of the primary timeline after the events of Burning Shores, with the Primary Aloy and Co needing to help the various temporal stranded individuals back to their original timelines let the past, present and future be negatively affected,

Primary Timeline - Aloy and Co just after the events of the Burning Shores are searching across the world for anything and anyone that could help them with the goal of defeating NEMESIS, the FZ HQ has become Sylens’s personal laboratory outside the Base during his and Beta’s attempts to develop an alternative Helph Subordinate Function. Aloy is searching the various ruins of Old World companies and everyone else is rallying the different tribes together

NEMESIS Defeated Timeline - 70 years after the defeat of NEMESIS in a timeline were its demise led it not to attempt its fail safe, Aloy and Beta are both into their early 90’s and have been leading the reconstruction of the world and have become the leaders of a Transnational Organisation, Second Dawn, that guides and advises the various different tribes and slowly reintroducing advanced technologies and are assisted by the third generation of Sobeck Clones

NEMESIS Victorious Timeline - 6 Months after the failure of the final attack against NEMESIS, due to Sylens trying and failing to try to overthrow the internal minds within NEMESIS and upload his own, the final outpost of humanity is the FZ Base and Aloy and Co considering evacuating the plant with who they save with NEMESIS creating cybernetic clones and reverse terraforming the planet,

Corrupted Aloy Timeline - NEMESIS rather than remaining on Sirius sends its digital conscious to Earth over 15 years and becomes aware of and subsequently tries to mentally control Aloy and in time in between the events of HZD and HFW would strike, only to temporarily effect her and her morals slowly becoming more dark over time, ultimately destroying NEMESIS though becoming fully corrupted herself and turning herself immortal to “protect” the planet, turning the planet into an eternal Injustice 1984 government to control everything

Young Elisabet Timeline - A 20 year old Elisabet from 2040 just after she started working for FAS would be brought to the future alongside her mother to the timeline of 3041, with both interacting with Aloy and Co, who would be unaware of which timeline that they originally hail from the Primary Timeline or an alternate timeline already known or unknown, though eventually finding out that they were from an unknown timeline and informing the younger Elisabet of the events that occurred during the next 25 years, leading to a world without the Faro Plague

Alternative ZD Timeline - Rather than being informed by Ted about the Faro Swarm on the 31st of October 2064, Ted instead continued to try and contain the situation in his own way, and it was not until the 1st of January 2065, that Elisabet had though her own means learned of the Swarm and began contacting the USRC, and that with complete data, her original ZD plan could not be reached if tried across the planet, and instead reluctantly agreed to work with FZ to create a version of ZD that would work on terraforming another series planet to rebirth humanity, with Tilda forcibly making Elisabet immortal and Ted managing to stole away

Sylens Transcendent Timeline - In this timeline Sylens was able to successfully firstly turn himself into a Zenith level immortal by using ZD tech unknown to Aloy and later uploading his consciousness into the then empty space of NEMESIS after its defeat, eventually leaving Earth to learn the secrets of the Apollo database, with him eventually becoming aware of the fact that the Apollo database was incomplete and looked into other realities and contacting different versions of himself, hoping to find the totality of human knowledge, creating an “Inter Dimensional Council of Sylens”,

Young Aloy Timeline - In this younger version of Aloy that was the from the past of the primary timeline, and thus connected to all the older branching timeline versions of herself, a six year old Aloy just after finding the Focus, would be sent to the past of the younger Elisabet timeline and be found by Ted, who after deducting from the Focus, would learn of the future and seek to control and manipulate the younger version of Aloy, that would impact the future versions of her,

Scenario #2:

Given that NEMESIS was designed to provide a framework of digital immortality and mind uploading, with the fact that the Lightkeeper had the goal of creating clones of the original Alpha’s to complete ZD

While the protocol was abandoned midway through development, with the fact that early versions of mind uploading had already been developed by the time of the Faro Plague, potentially Lightkeeper would have created physical clones of the original Alpha’s with them later copying their thoughts and memories from one body to another, with something similar I believe could have been a way in the cannon games that Ted could have escaped from his bunker as an alternative form of immortality,

With the possibility that in my hypothetical story, Elisabet would have eventually discontinued the protocol due to needing to effectively grow a new person with their own sense of self and destroy it in order to upload their own minds as a moral compromise to far for her to accept, though the mind copy of Elisabet from a later point of ZD’s development was saved and the basis technology maintained, with the Alpha’s after her death would reluctantly opt to go against her wishes and create a new clone for Elisabet to inhabit, only for Ted’s actions to prematurely stop their efforts and take the technology for his own,

With NEMESIS’s Signal eventually being sent to GIAI and GIAI would reactivate the efforts to create a new Elisabet, only to not go completely according to plan and the newborn Aloy would be found by the Nora, with Aloy over the years before the Proving have incomplete flashbacks to events of Elisabet’s life mixed with her own time, with a mental phantom of Elisabet would eventually emerge and communicate with Aloy, though due to the process of the mind upload being incomplete and Elisabet not wishing to take over Aloy’s mind, Elisabet’s knowledge of current events would be limited to the point before the Faro Plague began

What do you think?

@MOZEOH

I like the idea of HEPHAESTUS making a version of the Tallneck that is built for combat, possibly even making the regular mini game of climbing the Tallnecks into a miniature boss battle where Aloy and Co would need to fight up to the top and override it.

I could also see the possibility that given that during the Burning Shores DLC the Metal Devil was classified as a Titan level weight class, similar to its previous lore, that during the events of H3 HEPH might attempt to create more machines of similar size, potentially causing Aloy and Co to need to stop its production of those new machines during a story quest, I can also see the potential that HEPH might try botanical-based machines again by combining aspects of the Control Towers from the Frozen Wilds and the Metal Flowers ability to rapidly reproduce

In my mind given that FZ in the form of Specters that were composed of nanotechnology that where capable of via the Regeneration Unit to obtain damaged nano plates, in addition to having come into contact with the FZ Printing Matrix that is faster and more efficient than a Cauldron, and possibly even becoming aware of the protective shielding used by FZ, I could see the following happening:

Instead of having machines that would be created from the single source of Cauldrons, I could imagine HEPH deploying a series of Printing Matrix or possibly creating a type of machine that internally processes a Printing Matrix or a combination of both, that would allow for the rapid deployment of new machines closer to the source of an attack and responding with different types of machines that would better combat the problem, with the destruction of a printing matrix being a key factor of a fight,

Maybe with the addition aspect that machines produced from a printing matrix would each have unique override codes, that could render overriding less effective or to obtain the help of a machine it to be created from a friendly cauldron, maybe even from the repair bay underneath The Base in the third game or other local Cauldrons after they had been overridden, maybe with HEPH abandoning Cauldrons and moving towards less decentralised machine creation

With another aspect being that HEPH would integrate the personal shielding of FZ into its designs and that the anti shield weapon would need to become an everyday aspect of hunting, with the possibility that HEPH being aware that such a countermeasure exists and not fully believing it’s inability to be bypassed fully would instead of having a singular level would create a multi level armour that would individually protect different aspects of the individual machine from being attacked, with a unique arrow or other weapon being created with a small scale version of the anti shield weapon that would temporarily remove it,

@MagzPandaHorizon

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@Guy who types stuff 1.1

Thank you for your kind words, here are some of my thoughts about how the machine combat could change in the next game:

In my mind given that FZ in the form of Specters that were composed of nanotechnology that where capable of via the Regeneration Unit to obtain damaged nano plates, in addition to having come into contact with the FZ Printing Matrix that is faster and more efficient than a Cauldron, and possibly even becoming aware of the protective shielding used by FZ, I could see the following happening:

Instead of having machines that would be created from the single source of Cauldrons, I could imagine HEPH deploying a series of Printing Matrix or possibly creating a type of machine that internally processes a Printing Matrix or a combination of both, that would allow for the rapid deployment of new machines closer to the source of an attack and responding with different types of machines that would better combat the problem, with the destruction of a printing matrix being a key factor of a fight,

Maybe with the addition aspect that machines produced from a printing matrix would each have unique override codes, that could render overriding less effective or to obtain the help of a machine it to be created from a friendly cauldron, maybe even from the repair bay underneath The Base in the third game or other local Cauldrons after they had been overridden,

With another aspect being that HEPH would integrate the personal shielding of FZ into its designs and that the anti shield weapon would need to become an everyday aspect of hunting, with the possibility that HEPH being aware that such a countermeasure exists and not fully believing it’s inability to be bypassed fully would instead of having a singular level would create a multi level armour that would individually protect different aspects of the individual machine from being attacked, with a unique arrow or other weapon being created with a small scale version of the anti shield weapon that would temporarily remove it,

I can also see giving that there was speculation about creating a replacement for HEPH and that below the Base is a Culdron, that in the third game that the current override system might be expanded to include a system where players can create and customise various combinations of machines and potentially increase the number of machines available at once, maybe for every Thunderjaw sized machine the player could use five Watche sized machines, with players needing to salvage parts from defeat machines to build new machines

What do you think?

@Guy who types stuff 1.1

I like the idea that NEMESIS would seek to create a vessel for itself that would be based on the Mad Sun-King, though I could see a situation where NEMESIS might do both, or even expand the idea by potentially creating vessels based upon the various different leaders of the tribes and maybe even having Teersa being kidnapped and replaced with a NEMESIS controlled vessel, I could also see giving that Aloy’s friends have left her immediate vicinity that NEMESIS might seek to kidnap and replace at least some of them to further manipulate Aloy

As for how NEMESIS might use a vessel based on the Mad Sun-King, depending on how much NEMESIS knows or outright fabricates it might use the fact that in reality it was Ersa who landed the killing blow rather than Avad, giving that part of the acceptance that Avad was king that the power of the sun switched from his father to him due to him having killed the Mad Sunking, to create a loyal following among the remainder of the Shadow Carja and use its space station sized from entering into orbit as a form of the Burned Shadow, with the potential that to create chaos NEMESIS might restart the Red Raids combined with overrides machines

As for the potential for NEMESIS to use a clone of Elisabet to help rule the world, given the fact that within the Quen Elisabet was regarded as an Ansestor, that NEMESIS would use a clone of Elisabet and send her an area of the Quen Empire due to NEMESIS having studied Earth and being aware of its worship of Living Ancestors, maybe from having studied Earth from Data sent back from its Signal or delayed 8.22 Light Years monitoring, with the clone being able to infiltrate the Quen and similar to HADES and the Eclipse turn a hardcore faction into her followers, Second Dawn as a potential name, with the potential that Aloy would become aware of the clone’s existence by GIAI detecting something entering the Earth’s atmosphere and later Bohai via the upgraded Focus that Alva gave him or Seyka informing Aloy of the existence of a mysterious new faction that has ZD tech but being unsure about its leaders identity, maybe using Alpha clearance to help the various problems of the Quen to gain a following but doing so having a negative effect elsewhere.

As for an introduction of the clone maybe her identity would only be revealed until the end of the first act, with her having used ZF armour and possibly upgrading shielding to make herself resistant against any anti shield weapons and potentially using an altered voice to speak in an intimidating manner and hide her identity, maybe using holograms and voice recordings to portray herself as Ted as both to gain greater attention from the Quen with them regarding him as “ the man who saved the world” and maybe to leave Aloy wondering and thus the player if Ted survived in some form, with the possibility that the clone might set her base of operations at either a Cradle or the regional headquarters of Miriam Technologies

With the possibility that the clone would after being informed of Aloy’s existence and being in the Quen homeland would, maybe thinking that Aloy shared her goal and seeing her as a sister would seek her out and reveal herself as a clone of Elisabet and thinking that they had the same goal by believing in NEMESIS’s manipulations, with the third’s clone fake identity being hidden from Aloy, maybe thinking that the lie was necessary similar to Op Enduring Victory, and the third clone would help her sister and also learn of Beta’s existence, only after some time for Aloy to notice inconsistencies and beginning to understand that she and the third clone did not share the same goal leading to their falling out

With the potential that NEMESIS if it gained either full or partial control over the various tribes that it would seek to destroy the world via creating a global conflict between the different tribes and Aloy would need to free the imprisoned leaders of the tribes and remove the imposters, I could imagine that NEMESIS might seek to ruin the world saving reputation that Aloy had gained to further reduce her chances for success.

What do you think?

What do you think?

@Ben the midnight star

I have the following ideas about how NEMESIS could be defended by Aloy and Co, if you are interested in reading more:

A possibility could be to using AETHER with its power over the sky and atmosphere could be to create large electromagnetic storms across the planet that would force NEMESIS, if it requires a physical presence on Earth, to land on predetermined areas in Earth without the presence of Tribes to be harmed and by making use of the other Subordinate Functions would turn the area into an inhospitable environment for NEMESIS, possibly having POSEIDON to create localised flooding conditions to physically drown NEMESIS or keep it in place by forcing it into a situation where it could not survive, with HEPHAESTUS either independently or working with GIAI would attack it, with ARTIMS sending various different animals to attack as well

Given that the machines that make up the Faro Plague only contained land based machines, it seems somewhat unlikely that given that Ted intended for the Chariot Line to become an entirely functional fully automated system that could handle any situation, given the lack of a dedicated machine to Air, Water and Space environments would seem to be somewhat of a deficiency in the overall design, and given that GIAI has access to water and air based machines and NEMESIS is a giant space based machine

Given that in the Datapoint Dagger In My Boot, Walter seemed confident that before he had inadvertently caused the end of the world, Ted was in the process of creating his next project, giving that Ted viewed the Chariot Line as his defining achievement, maybe he intended to reveal an upcoming update to the Chariot Line that would include machines dedicated to those environments, with possible names being Tefnut for a water machine, Nut for a Chariot Line machine dedicated to the sky and Ra for a space based machine giving Ted’s tendency to name aspects of his work after Egyptian mythology

With the possibility that in order to defeat NEMESIS Aloy would at least in part need to use the technology that ended the world in an attempt to defeat NEMESIS, with the possibility that she would be rightly worried that if in using such technology particularly in a hypothetical space based machine with the replication/nigh unbreakable security of the Chariot Line to defeat NEMESIS would lead to the end of the world again by another catastrophic disaster

With the possibility that Aloy and Beta would not trusting the Chariot Line in the capacity to go out of control, would use the technology of the different companies that Walter mentioned while building their own anti NEMESIS like machine with a series of fail safe systems that would ensure that they would not become a threat to the world,

In my mind regarding the Glitch, during the conversation between Elisabet and Ted before she went to US Robot Command she said that if he did not give her the funds to build ZD then she would reveal the “real source of the glitch”, given that the Plauge would later become known as the Faro Plague, it would seem that knowledge that Ted himself was indirectly responsible for the end of the world to be revealed as a threat would somewhat be less effective and that “real source of the glitch” would be something else,

Maybe given that in the HADES proving lab, where Ted was creating computer viruses before the outbreak of the Plague, maybe one of viruses created could have fallen into the hands of a group or individual that unknowingly or intentionally spread it to a Chariot Line swarm, possibly before they were fully constructed and left or been able to overcome other Chariot Line robots, with the virus itself being illegal to have created, with the possibility that groups such as Wheel of Life or Naysay Doom could have tried to take control over the Swam for their own ends only to lose control

With the possibility that the origins of The Glitch would factor into the story of Horizon 3, that in finding its origins, that Elisabet would have known about in some form, might be key to defeating NEMESIS, that given the case of the Glitch was seemingly able to bypass the encryption protocol of the Swam, that was established as being near unbreakable in any short time frame, that it could delay or hinder the efforts of NEMESIS, with the possibility that their could be a heavy storyline in whether using it against NEMESIS would be worth it given that it already caused the end of the world, with it being considered as a potential final “break in case of emergency” last resort card after everything else had failed, with Aloy and Co being incredibly reluctant to use such an approach at the cost of potentially damaging the world

Maybe with the Glitch being used to split up the individual minds that make up NEMESIS into different components, and take on the individual minds one at a time, or such a attack could be used to temporarily stun NEMESIS to allow for a greater attack against it, with the possibility that NEMESIS lacking HADES, would try to create the Faro Plague again in one of its attempts to destroy the world, maybe leading to part of the story or a chain of side quests or activities where Alloy would need to destroy all remaining Metal Devils, with them being temporarily reactivated and the surrounding area being turned into a super boss fight, requiring her to travel back to protect areas in the first game, or maybe giving that Titan is a new weight class introduced in Burning Shores that NEMESIS would deploy similar sized machines as boss fights, or Alloy would need to somehow override a Metal Devil to combat NEMESIS or create her own Titan sized machine,

What do you think?

@Ben the midnight star

Thank you for your response, I have some other thoughts if your interested in hearing about them:

In my mind given that the Odyssey and the FZ base where either left completely unaffected by the rescue of Beta and GIAI or having minimal overall damage. With Burning Shores in a datapoint conferring that that it is still possible to travel to and from the FZ base and the ship.

I could see the ship becoming central to Horizon 3, potentially to help rebuild the world after a devastating global attack by NEMESIS, maybe in the form of a DLC after the main storyline to set up future events given that GG has 16 plans for the Horizon series

Or to help combat the events of the biosphere collapse by users the stock of seeds of plants and animals onboard combined with the sub functions under GIAI’s control to create something of a patchwork solution to the problems with the biosphere, with the hypothetical on board Printer Matrix and new machine creation AI to send machines from near orbit to help maintain the Earth

With the possibility that The Odyssey might become the main base of operations for Aloy during the next game and the Shuttle allowing her and her friends to be able to travel to different locations across the globe, from the Sacred Lands to the Quen Empire and beyond, with the possibility that the map might be split into different zones like the Forbidden West and Burning Shores where with a text pop up saying that moving beyond its boundaries would move between the different locations, maybe in game Aloy could call the FZ shuttle or simply moving outside boundaries would move to the next region

I could also see the potential that there could be a mission set in space during the next game, maybe either set on the ship itself or on NEMESIS’s physical form. With the potential that the final mission could take place on board NEMESIS’s physical form and maybe the Odyssey might be used to maybe literally drag NEMESIS into the sun or otherwise upload its component minds and turned into a version of Pandora’s Box and become its prison

I could also imagine that to raise the stakes of the story that some level of environmental impact due to NEMESIS’s actions would be needed to establish itself as a global threat and that as a consequence Aloy might be forced to reveal the truth about ZD and by extension her own history and connection to Elisabet to the rest of the world in order for the different tribes to come together and fight against NEMESIS or during the rebuilding process, with the different tribes having various different perspectives on the truth of history,

Just before the Spector Prime fight Tilda said Aloy would “forgive her in a couple of centuries”, indicating that she intended to make Aloy immortal similar to herself, as she had deemed Aloy to be the “best possible self” of Elisabet and that in order to make Aloy immortal, it would require a number of different biological, pharmaceutical and cybernetic enhancements to achieve the effect as said by Beta,

Given that by the time Aloy had entered GEMI, Tilda had gone through Aloy’s old Focus and judged her to be the “superior copy” of Elisabet and had apparently already planned to take Aloy with her, would have allowed for the other Zeniths to take Beta and GIAI, maybe in part to give Aloy a reason to attack the Zenith base and ensure that HETH was merged with GIAI and ease of access to the Odyssey, as Tilda only made a move to help Aloy once Beta had been captured

With the fact that Tilda had previously attempted to turn Beta into a new version of Elisabet and in her mind failed, though during that time and given her later comments to Aloy, Tilda had Beta lived up to her expectations had made her immortal, most likely behind the other Zeniths or having betrayed them in some way,

And that given that given that Aloy passed out in between the events at GEMI and awakening in Tilda’s house and awakening sometime later, maybe Tilda might have started the preliminary process of making Aloy immortal, through evidently not through the apparent use of nanotechnology or cybernetic implants, but could have been through a series of biochemical injections that could have been enough to extend Aloy’s lifespan and vitality to maximum potential for a normal human or beyond it, given that they became immortal on their colony with the final stages being seemingly developed their, with Tilda’s intention being to further immortalise Aloy upon reaching the Odyssey

With the possibility that in addition to having given Aloy such biochemical and genetic modifications, Tilda might have in a backup plan could have attempted to smaller scale version of NEMESIS, by creating a scan of Aloy’s mind and memory at that point or having it continually update in a twisted sense that if anything happened to the real Aloy that she could have had a digital version that she could place into a new body, maybe seeing Aloy or perhaps Tilda’s projection of Elisabet onto her as being worthy of being saved in digital form

With the effects of Tilda attempting to make Aloy immortal, with the potential of just granting her an highly increased lifespan due to Tilda’s death not completing the process, to account for real life ageing, it could further the theme of Aloy being isolated and how she would react to the situation, first from the Nora for being considered an Outcast and later the Anointed and later herself in the beginning of HZW, with Aloy discovering that her lack of aging/slow ageing from Tilda’s actions was another form of isolation, with such modifications becoming known when Aloy would survive an otherwise fatal injury during an attack by NEMESIS and Tilda’s actions indirectly allowed her to ultimately defeat NEMESIS

What do you think?

@Ben the midnight star

That sounds like a good idea and is similar to an idea that I have regarding how NEMESIS might have a physical presence in Horizon 3:

I could see NEMESIS being created from the minds of FZ both as a result of retreading their personalities and in a practical sense, create a new generation of humans, during the years in between its escape and physical arrival on Earth and both genetically and cyberneticaly engineered into superhuman beings, that could act as another form of sleeper agent among humans on Earth, and provide a way to explain why at least some of the human encounters in combat would be capable of various feats for gameplay purposes, including the possibility that NEMESIS could place such sleeper agents in different tribes and otherwise dress and act like their were normal people until being activated and cause chaos

I co also see NEMESIS to give it a more obvious presence in the game outside its space station sized form, could manifest itself within its human creations, not unlike Agent Smith copying himself over various programs, maybe each one being a manifestation of some aspect of the Zenith’s that originally made up NEMESIS, with the other humans serving as something of an organic hard drive for extra processing power, maybe to the point of brains in a jar in its physical from, with such manifestations of NEMESIS being a way to verbally communicate with Aloy and Co, maybe by creating forms from the DNA of its original minds to bring back previous actors

Other way that NEMESIS could interact with people would be by manipulating the Focus to alter what was observed to trick others in a critical situation such as maybe unwinding making Aloy shot someone she cares about while thinking she was shooting NEMESIS, maybe playing to Walter’s showmanship skills and creating highly effective environments not unlike in the film industry or otherwise create horror environments that would play on others fears

Another idea I have is that giving that FZ had a copy of Elisabet’s DNA, potentially providing by Tilda, that in addition to creating a version of Elisabet to control as a puppet, it might given that it was a fusion of the various minds of FZ, use the same plan that they used with Beta, and create a new clone from childhood, though unlike FZ raise the new clone with a twisted sense of history and of ZD and Enduring Victory, which the new clone would genuinely believe and love NEMESIS and think that given the world was not what Elisabet intended that it needed to be destroyed in order for what Elisabet wanted to become reality and having the intelligence of Beta and the physical strength of Aloy though being a dark reflection of both

I also like the idea that NEMESIS could promise that it could fully resurrect Elisabet, both physically and mentally, maybe via a brain scan that Tilda covertly did in some fashion, would be an interesting storyline, with the possibility that NEMESIS could claim that only by accessing and controlling ZD technology on Earth would be capable to resurrect Elisabet, maybe though maintaining the lie that FZ told Beta that something other than NEMESIS destroyed the FZ colony possibly portraying itself as having failed to achieve its “original purpose of saving FZ” and now wants to “save life on earth” as another manipulative form of control building itself up as a way of restoring the minds of FZ and Elisabet after FZ had given their lives to create it and her as their last hope for the survival of humanity, building her up as a saviour, maybe being a potential look at what Aloy could have become if she embraced the Anointed title given to her by the Nora,

Also I think that NEMESIS should have the ability to resurrect Elisabet and to create an emotional stake in the story, with Aloy being at first not believing that Elisabet could be resurrected only to be proved wrong and knowing that Elisabet would never be willing to be resurrected at the cost of life on Earth would need to destroy the mental copy of Elisabet to save life on Earth, with the possibility that during the final battle Aloy would in some form just before the destruction of NEMESIS would enter a digital/mental out of body experience and would if briefly meet the NEMESIS copy of Elisabet, fully free of whatever influence NEMESIS might have had on her, in a recreation of her dream from the start of HFW, as something to bookend her wish to know more about Elisabet and passing the responsibility of protecting Earth, only for them to be able to speak with each other before Aloy would return to normal and continue defeating NEMESIS, maybe with Aloy and Beta trying to save the digital version of Elisabet themselves

What do you think?