@Ben the midnight star

That sounds like a good idea and is similar to an idea that I have regarding how NEMESIS might have a physical presence in Horizon 3:

I could see NEMESIS being created from the minds of FZ both as a result of retreading their personalities and in a practical sense, create a new generation of humans, during the years in between its escape and physical arrival on Earth and both genetically and cyberneticaly engineered into superhuman beings, that could act as another form of sleeper agent among humans on Earth, and provide a way to explain why at least some of the human encounters in combat would be capable of various feats for gameplay purposes, including the possibility that NEMESIS could place such sleeper agents in different tribes and otherwise dress and act like their were normal people until being activated and cause chaos

I co also see NEMESIS to give it a more obvious presence in the game outside its space station sized form, could manifest itself within its human creations, not unlike Agent Smith copying himself over various programs, maybe each one being a manifestation of some aspect of the Zenith’s that originally made up NEMESIS, with the other humans serving as something of an organic hard drive for extra processing power, maybe to the point of brains in a jar in its physical from, with such manifestations of NEMESIS being a way to verbally communicate with Aloy and Co, maybe by creating forms from the DNA of its original minds to bring back previous actors

Other way that NEMESIS could interact with people would be by manipulating the Focus to alter what was observed to trick others in a critical situation such as maybe unwinding making Aloy shot someone she cares about while thinking she was shooting NEMESIS, maybe playing to Walter’s showmanship skills and creating highly effective environments not unlike in the film industry or otherwise create horror environments that would play on others fears

Another idea I have is that giving that FZ had a copy of Elisabet’s DNA, potentially providing by Tilda, that in addition to creating a version of Elisabet to control as a puppet, it might given that it was a fusion of the various minds of FZ, use the same plan that they used with Beta, and create a new clone from childhood, though unlike FZ raise the new clone with a twisted sense of history and of ZD and Enduring Victory, which the new clone would genuinely believe and love NEMESIS and think that given the world was not what Elisabet intended that it needed to be destroyed in order for what Elisabet wanted to become reality and having the intelligence of Beta and the physical strength of Aloy though being a dark reflection of both

I also like the idea that NEMESIS could promise that it could fully resurrect Elisabet, both physically and mentally, maybe via a brain scan that Tilda covertly did in some fashion, would be an interesting storyline, with the possibility that NEMESIS could claim that only by accessing and controlling ZD technology on Earth would be capable to resurrect Elisabet, maybe though maintaining the lie that FZ told Beta that something other than NEMESIS destroyed the FZ colony possibly portraying itself as having failed to achieve its “original purpose of saving FZ” and now wants to “save life on earth” as another manipulative form of control building itself up as a way of restoring the minds of FZ and Elisabet after FZ had given their lives to create it and her as their last hope for the survival of humanity, building her up as a saviour, maybe being a potential look at what Aloy could have become if she embraced the Anointed title given to her by the Nora,

Also I think that NEMESIS should have the ability to resurrect Elisabet and to create an emotional stake in the story, with Aloy being at first not believing that Elisabet could be resurrected only to be proved wrong and knowing that Elisabet would never be willing to be resurrected at the cost of life on Earth would need to destroy the mental copy of Elisabet to save life on Earth, with the possibility that during the final battle Aloy would in some form just before the destruction of NEMESIS would enter a digital/mental out of body experience and would if briefly meet the NEMESIS copy of Elisabet, fully free of whatever influence NEMESIS might have had on her, in a recreation of her dream from the start of HFW, as something to bookend her wish to know more about Elisabet and passing the responsibility of protecting Earth, only for them to be able to speak with each other before Aloy would return to normal and continue defeating NEMESIS, maybe with Aloy and Beta trying to save the digital version of Elisabet themselves

What do you think?

That could be so crazy. But it will be interesting having Nemesis in physical body, not like Hades.

@Ben the midnight star

Thank you for your response, I have some other thoughts if your interested in hearing about them:

In my mind given that the Odyssey and the FZ base where either left completely unaffected by the rescue of Beta and GIAI or having minimal overall damage. With Burning Shores in a datapoint conferring that that it is still possible to travel to and from the FZ base and the ship.

I could see the ship becoming central to Horizon 3, potentially to help rebuild the world after a devastating global attack by NEMESIS, maybe in the form of a DLC after the main storyline to set up future events given that GG has 16 plans for the Horizon series

Or to help combat the events of the biosphere collapse by users the stock of seeds of plants and animals onboard combined with the sub functions under GIAI’s control to create something of a patchwork solution to the problems with the biosphere, with the hypothetical on board Printer Matrix and new machine creation AI to send machines from near orbit to help maintain the Earth

With the possibility that The Odyssey might become the main base of operations for Aloy during the next game and the Shuttle allowing her and her friends to be able to travel to different locations across the globe, from the Sacred Lands to the Quen Empire and beyond, with the possibility that the map might be split into different zones like the Forbidden West and Burning Shores where with a text pop up saying that moving beyond its boundaries would move between the different locations, maybe in game Aloy could call the FZ shuttle or simply moving outside boundaries would move to the next region

I could also see the potential that there could be a mission set in space during the next game, maybe either set on the ship itself or on NEMESIS’s physical form. With the potential that the final mission could take place on board NEMESIS’s physical form and maybe the Odyssey might be used to maybe literally drag NEMESIS into the sun or otherwise upload its component minds and turned into a version of Pandora’s Box and become its prison

I could also imagine that to raise the stakes of the story that some level of environmental impact due to NEMESIS’s actions would be needed to establish itself as a global threat and that as a consequence Aloy might be forced to reveal the truth about ZD and by extension her own history and connection to Elisabet to the rest of the world in order for the different tribes to come together and fight against NEMESIS or during the rebuilding process, with the different tribes having various different perspectives on the truth of history,

Just before the Spector Prime fight Tilda said Aloy would “forgive her in a couple of centuries”, indicating that she intended to make Aloy immortal similar to herself, as she had deemed Aloy to be the “best possible self” of Elisabet and that in order to make Aloy immortal, it would require a number of different biological, pharmaceutical and cybernetic enhancements to achieve the effect as said by Beta,

Given that by the time Aloy had entered GEMI, Tilda had gone through Aloy’s old Focus and judged her to be the “superior copy” of Elisabet and had apparently already planned to take Aloy with her, would have allowed for the other Zeniths to take Beta and GIAI, maybe in part to give Aloy a reason to attack the Zenith base and ensure that HETH was merged with GIAI and ease of access to the Odyssey, as Tilda only made a move to help Aloy once Beta had been captured

With the fact that Tilda had previously attempted to turn Beta into a new version of Elisabet and in her mind failed, though during that time and given her later comments to Aloy, Tilda had Beta lived up to her expectations had made her immortal, most likely behind the other Zeniths or having betrayed them in some way,

And that given that given that Aloy passed out in between the events at GEMI and awakening in Tilda’s house and awakening sometime later, maybe Tilda might have started the preliminary process of making Aloy immortal, through evidently not through the apparent use of nanotechnology or cybernetic implants, but could have been through a series of biochemical injections that could have been enough to extend Aloy’s lifespan and vitality to maximum potential for a normal human or beyond it, given that they became immortal on their colony with the final stages being seemingly developed their, with Tilda’s intention being to further immortalise Aloy upon reaching the Odyssey

With the possibility that in addition to having given Aloy such biochemical and genetic modifications, Tilda might have in a backup plan could have attempted to smaller scale version of NEMESIS, by creating a scan of Aloy’s mind and memory at that point or having it continually update in a twisted sense that if anything happened to the real Aloy that she could have had a digital version that she could place into a new body, maybe seeing Aloy or perhaps Tilda’s projection of Elisabet onto her as being worthy of being saved in digital form

With the effects of Tilda attempting to make Aloy immortal, with the potential of just granting her an highly increased lifespan due to Tilda’s death not completing the process, to account for real life ageing, it could further the theme of Aloy being isolated and how she would react to the situation, first from the Nora for being considered an Outcast and later the Anointed and later herself in the beginning of HZW, with Aloy discovering that her lack of aging/slow ageing from Tilda’s actions was another form of isolation, with such modifications becoming known when Aloy would survive an otherwise fatal injury during an attack by NEMESIS and Tilda’s actions indirectly allowed her to ultimately defeat NEMESIS

What do you think?

Aloy being isolated because of her immortality could be interesting. And the ship and what we could do could be really amazing.

@Ben the midnight star

I have the following ideas about how NEMESIS could be defended by Aloy and Co, if you are interested in reading more:

A possibility could be to using AETHER with its power over the sky and atmosphere could be to create large electromagnetic storms across the planet that would force NEMESIS, if it requires a physical presence on Earth, to land on predetermined areas in Earth without the presence of Tribes to be harmed and by making use of the other Subordinate Functions would turn the area into an inhospitable environment for NEMESIS, possibly having POSEIDON to create localised flooding conditions to physically drown NEMESIS or keep it in place by forcing it into a situation where it could not survive, with HEPHAESTUS either independently or working with GIAI would attack it, with ARTIMS sending various different animals to attack as well

Given that the machines that make up the Faro Plague only contained land based machines, it seems somewhat unlikely that given that Ted intended for the Chariot Line to become an entirely functional fully automated system that could handle any situation, given the lack of a dedicated machine to Air, Water and Space environments would seem to be somewhat of a deficiency in the overall design, and given that GIAI has access to water and air based machines and NEMESIS is a giant space based machine

Given that in the Datapoint Dagger In My Boot, Walter seemed confident that before he had inadvertently caused the end of the world, Ted was in the process of creating his next project, giving that Ted viewed the Chariot Line as his defining achievement, maybe he intended to reveal an upcoming update to the Chariot Line that would include machines dedicated to those environments, with possible names being Tefnut for a water machine, Nut for a Chariot Line machine dedicated to the sky and Ra for a space based machine giving Ted’s tendency to name aspects of his work after Egyptian mythology

With the possibility that in order to defeat NEMESIS Aloy would at least in part need to use the technology that ended the world in an attempt to defeat NEMESIS, with the possibility that she would be rightly worried that if in using such technology particularly in a hypothetical space based machine with the replication/nigh unbreakable security of the Chariot Line to defeat NEMESIS would lead to the end of the world again by another catastrophic disaster

With the possibility that Aloy and Beta would not trusting the Chariot Line in the capacity to go out of control, would use the technology of the different companies that Walter mentioned while building their own anti NEMESIS like machine with a series of fail safe systems that would ensure that they would not become a threat to the world,

In my mind regarding the Glitch, during the conversation between Elisabet and Ted before she went to US Robot Command she said that if he did not give her the funds to build ZD then she would reveal the “real source of the glitch”, given that the Plauge would later become known as the Faro Plague, it would seem that knowledge that Ted himself was indirectly responsible for the end of the world to be revealed as a threat would somewhat be less effective and that “real source of the glitch” would be something else,

Maybe given that in the HADES proving lab, where Ted was creating computer viruses before the outbreak of the Plague, maybe one of viruses created could have fallen into the hands of a group or individual that unknowingly or intentionally spread it to a Chariot Line swarm, possibly before they were fully constructed and left or been able to overcome other Chariot Line robots, with the virus itself being illegal to have created, with the possibility that groups such as Wheel of Life or Naysay Doom could have tried to take control over the Swam for their own ends only to lose control

With the possibility that the origins of The Glitch would factor into the story of Horizon 3, that in finding its origins, that Elisabet would have known about in some form, might be key to defeating NEMESIS, that given the case of the Glitch was seemingly able to bypass the encryption protocol of the Swam, that was established as being near unbreakable in any short time frame, that it could delay or hinder the efforts of NEMESIS, with the possibility that their could be a heavy storyline in whether using it against NEMESIS would be worth it given that it already caused the end of the world, with it being considered as a potential final “break in case of emergency” last resort card after everything else had failed, with Aloy and Co being incredibly reluctant to use such an approach at the cost of potentially damaging the world

Maybe with the Glitch being used to split up the individual minds that make up NEMESIS into different components, and take on the individual minds one at a time, or such a attack could be used to temporarily stun NEMESIS to allow for a greater attack against it, with the possibility that NEMESIS lacking HADES, would try to create the Faro Plague again in one of its attempts to destroy the world, maybe leading to part of the story or a chain of side quests or activities where Alloy would need to destroy all remaining Metal Devils, with them being temporarily reactivated and the surrounding area being turned into a super boss fight, requiring her to travel back to protect areas in the first game, or maybe giving that Titan is a new weight class introduced in Burning Shores that NEMESIS would deploy similar sized machines as boss fights, or Alloy would need to somehow override a Metal Devil to combat NEMESIS or create her own Titan sized machine,

What do you think?

I'd like Nemesis to do what you said, but instead of Elizbet, he chooses Jiran, which leads him to try to rule the world as a God-King.

@Guy who types stuff 1.1

I like the idea that NEMESIS would seek to create a vessel for itself that would be based on the Mad Sun-King, though I could see a situation where NEMESIS might do both, or even expand the idea by potentially creating vessels based upon the various different leaders of the tribes and maybe even having Teersa being kidnapped and replaced with a NEMESIS controlled vessel, I could also see giving that Aloy’s friends have left her immediate vicinity that NEMESIS might seek to kidnap and replace at least some of them to further manipulate Aloy

As for how NEMESIS might use a vessel based on the Mad Sun-King, depending on how much NEMESIS knows or outright fabricates it might use the fact that in reality it was Ersa who landed the killing blow rather than Avad, giving that part of the acceptance that Avad was king that the power of the sun switched from his father to him due to him having killed the Mad Sunking, to create a loyal following among the remainder of the Shadow Carja and use its space station sized from entering into orbit as a form of the Burned Shadow, with the potential that to create chaos NEMESIS might restart the Red Raids combined with overrides machines

As for the potential for NEMESIS to use a clone of Elisabet to help rule the world, given the fact that within the Quen Elisabet was regarded as an Ansestor, that NEMESIS would use a clone of Elisabet and send her an area of the Quen Empire due to NEMESIS having studied Earth and being aware of its worship of Living Ancestors, maybe from having studied Earth from Data sent back from its Signal or delayed 8.22 Light Years monitoring, with the clone being able to infiltrate the Quen and similar to HADES and the Eclipse turn a hardcore faction into her followers, Second Dawn as a potential name, with the potential that Aloy would become aware of the clone’s existence by GIAI detecting something entering the Earth’s atmosphere and later Bohai via the upgraded Focus that Alva gave him or Seyka informing Aloy of the existence of a mysterious new faction that has ZD tech but being unsure about its leaders identity, maybe using Alpha clearance to help the various problems of the Quen to gain a following but doing so having a negative effect elsewhere.

As for an introduction of the clone maybe her identity would only be revealed until the end of the first act, with her having used ZF armour and possibly upgrading shielding to make herself resistant against any anti shield weapons and potentially using an altered voice to speak in an intimidating manner and hide her identity, maybe using holograms and voice recordings to portray herself as Ted as both to gain greater attention from the Quen with them regarding him as “ the man who saved the world” and maybe to leave Aloy wondering and thus the player if Ted survived in some form, with the possibility that the clone might set her base of operations at either a Cradle or the regional headquarters of Miriam Technologies

With the possibility that the clone would after being informed of Aloy’s existence and being in the Quen homeland would, maybe thinking that Aloy shared her goal and seeing her as a sister would seek her out and reveal herself as a clone of Elisabet and thinking that they had the same goal by believing in NEMESIS’s manipulations, with the third’s clone fake identity being hidden from Aloy, maybe thinking that the lie was necessary similar to Op Enduring Victory, and the third clone would help her sister and also learn of Beta’s existence, only after some time for Aloy to notice inconsistencies and beginning to understand that she and the third clone did not share the same goal leading to their falling out

With the potential that NEMESIS if it gained either full or partial control over the various tribes that it would seek to destroy the world via creating a global conflict between the different tribes and Aloy would need to free the imprisoned leaders of the tribes and remove the imposters, I could imagine that NEMESIS might seek to ruin the world saving reputation that Aloy had gained to further reduce her chances for success.

What do you think?

What do you think?

JRY654 YD123 that sounds pretty amazing, I think I'd really like to see that.

@Guy who types stuff 1.1

Thank you for your kind words, here are some of my thoughts about how the machine combat could change in the next game:

In my mind given that FZ in the form of Specters that were composed of nanotechnology that where capable of via the Regeneration Unit to obtain damaged nano plates, in addition to having come into contact with the FZ Printing Matrix that is faster and more efficient than a Cauldron, and possibly even becoming aware of the protective shielding used by FZ, I could see the following happening:

Instead of having machines that would be created from the single source of Cauldrons, I could imagine HEPH deploying a series of Printing Matrix or possibly creating a type of machine that internally processes a Printing Matrix or a combination of both, that would allow for the rapid deployment of new machines closer to the source of an attack and responding with different types of machines that would better combat the problem, with the destruction of a printing matrix being a key factor of a fight,

Maybe with the addition aspect that machines produced from a printing matrix would each have unique override codes, that could render overriding less effective or to obtain the help of a machine it to be created from a friendly cauldron, maybe even from the repair bay underneath The Base in the third game or other local Cauldrons after they had been overridden,

With another aspect being that HEPH would integrate the personal shielding of FZ into its designs and that the anti shield weapon would need to become an everyday aspect of hunting, with the possibility that HEPH being aware that such a countermeasure exists and not fully believing it’s inability to be bypassed fully would instead of having a singular level would create a multi level armour that would individually protect different aspects of the individual machine from being attacked, with a unique arrow or other weapon being created with a small scale version of the anti shield weapon that would temporarily remove it,

I can also see giving that there was speculation about creating a replacement for HEPH and that below the Base is a Culdron, that in the third game that the current override system might be expanded to include a system where players can create and customise various combinations of machines and potentially increase the number of machines available at once, maybe for every Thunderjaw sized machine the player could use five Watche sized machines, with players needing to salvage parts from defeat machines to build new machines

What do you think?